PW 332: The reality behind Showtime’s polyamory

An interview with Anthony and Vanessa on the reality process behind Showtime’s Polyamory: Married and Dating

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1:00 News and host chat

  • I’ll be giving Content Creation for the Online Activist at CatalystCon September 14-16 in Long Beach

3:00 Interview: Anthony and Vanessa from Polyamory: Married and Dating

  • Anthony Christofani

    How long have you identified as poly and how did you come into it?

    • Anthony was always poly before he knew the word; Vanessa came to it from cheating.
  • Why did you decide to put your personal and sex lives on TV?
    • No one else raised their hands!
  • Did you have messaging goals going in and if so, are they being met?
    • Starting the conversation about an alternative to monogamy and the possibility of a functional, intimate relationship with more than one person
    • Coming across as happy and healthy
  • What was not included?
    • The rest of our lives: they cut out pretty much everything but the relationship (jobs, school, political activism, family issues)
  • What’s with all the sex scenes?
    • Vanessa posits that the sex shown is loving group sex, which is new
  • How do you respond to the community criticism regarding the lack of diversity in casting?

    Vanessa Carlisle

    • The show is limited to the few people willing to put their lives on TV, and there were attempts to show diversity, but none of those people agreed to be on the show
  • How much of the show is staged?
    • Yes and no to the staging question. They are not told to say anything in particular, but filming is scheduling in advance.
  • What do you want the polys and monogamous folks of the world to know?
    • Monogamous: thanks for the open-mindedness
    • Poly: thanks for the support and remember that we only represent ourselves; this is just the first foray

35:00 Feedback: how do I convey jealousy to my partner without him off?

A writes in to ask for advice. Her new partner was previously monogamous, and when A has occasional bouts of jealousy and insecurity, the new partner will just end the new relationship to make it easier on A. “How can I go about asking for the care I need without scaring him off?”

  • Edward: tell him you’re feeling jealous and explain it’s not a call to action
  • Ken: communicate the feeling of insecurity and ask him to help you understand it
  • Sarah: just say how you feel and reassure your partner that they don’t need to act
  • Scott: African masks and a voodoo ritual (to scare your partner off)?
  • Becky: admit feelings to yourself first and admit they aren’t rational; say “I don’t need you to change what you’re doing, but I just wanted you to know what is going on”
  • Dave: preface with “I feel kinda dumb bringing this up, but…” and share your feelings
  • Gigi: preface with “I realize this is really more about me and not about the situation… “ and share your feelings
  • Andrew: be responsible for your feelings and express them so that it’s clear to your partner that you know you are responsible
  • Lindsay: communicate root of your jealousy clearly and own your feelings

42:00 Thanks

Thanks to Joan for the donation this week!

43:00 Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!


PW 330: Adding a third without making a third wheel

Adding a third without making a third wheel

How do you open up a couple? Advice on how to welcome a third from a HBB

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1:00 News and host chat

  • Congratulations to our Burning Man ticket winner!
  • Thanks to M, Christopher, Eynstein, Wayne, Elijah, Marshall, Ioana, Devon, Jessica, Karl, Scott, Jason, Lee, Greg, Cornelius, Damita for their donation during the Burning Man fundraiser

5:00 Topic: From two to three

Advice to couples on opening up their relationship from a HBB: what to do and what not to do. Full blog post here.

  • Instead of considering only protective measures, consider what you have to offer and how you can welcome a third and make him/her feel as loved as you are
  • Try this exercise: how would you feel if you were welcoming a child into your relationship? Approach a new lover with that same sense of joy, sharing and hope.
  • A few don’t’s: don’t allow veto power, ignore metamour communication, say there is no hierarchy if there is. Don’t have the point of the vee moderate communication.

27:15 Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!


From two to three: advice on opening up from an HBB

There’s no one right way to do polyamory, but there are plenty of wrong ways – Miss Poly Manners

At OpenSF last month, a session on Negotiating Non-Monogamy gave me some food for thought on the perils of taking those first few steps into non-monogamy. The truth is that most couples who approach polyamory do so with the best of intentions. And yet, they often so diligently focus on the health of their own relationship that they can fail to consider the needs and health of the person that they intended to bring lovingly into their relationship. The result? Drama and pain for everyone involved!

A novel approach: the HBB speaks

Most books, articles and sessions on negotiating non-monogamy are geared toward the couple who is opening up a relationship. That makes sense; while there are many single polys, it’s often a monogamous couple that is seeking advice on opening up a relationship for the first time. And these books, articles and sessions are inevitably written and developed from the point of view of the couple. But here’s a twist, the secret no one will tell you: if you want advice on how to successfully open up a relationship, ask the people who would be interested in joining it. (Or run away screaming from it.) That is, ask the people you intend to date how you as a couple can put your best foot forward.

So that’s the novel approach here: how to negotiate non-monogamy successfully, from the point of view of the HBB (Hot Boobiesexual Babe) that you hope to bring into it! If you want to know how to get a quality new lover that will get along with your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife/spouse and present minimal drama, read on.

This is not a post about general poly skills you need to negotiate your first poly relationship. Instead, this is a list of specific do’s and don’ts that couples often overlook when negotiating their first non-monogamous relationship. First, let’s start with the positive: the do’s.

Newly non-monogamous do’s

OK! You’ve done the scary part and told your partner you want to be non-monogamous, and that partner didn’t leave the room screaming. Great first step! So… now what? What often follows is a series of long talks and negotiations that are all aimed at one thing: protecting the existing relationship. Now, protecting the existing relationship isn’t a bad thing per se, but if it’s your primary concern, you’ll find you won’t have a very positive first poly experience. Most couples begin with this mindset:

“How do we move forward without damaging our current relationship and without my getting hurt?”

This may seem to be a logical question, but in the dating world, fear of change is self-defeating. Of course your relationship will change; you’re adding another full human being to it! Not being open to changes, including those within yourself, is the #1 killer of first-time poly relationships. The first person you date outside your relationship is a human being with needs, quirks, desires, sarcasm, giggles and a whole wealth of emotions, just like you do. And adding another person to a family always changes the dynamic. Going into defensive/protection mode isn’t beneficial for you, your current partner, or your new partner.

Rather, try asking yourselves this:

  • What value do we have to offer to someone else?
  • How can we/I make a new partner feel loved, comfortable and included like I do?
  • How can we enrich this person’s experience with us and with poly?

Think of it this way: if you as a couple discovered you were pregnant, would you sit down to have a lot of talks about how you are going to protect yourself from the damage the new child will do to your current relationship dynamic? Would you plan how you’re going to keep the new child from threatening you and your lifestyle? Would you make a list of rules to prevent the child from crying when you’re having a dinner party and kick the child out if she does? Would you insist on having veto power and kicking the kid out if he doesn’t stick to his appointed nap time?

Well, you could, but it would be a bit cruel. If you’re that worried about maintaining your relationship exactly as it is, you’re probably not ready for a kid. And ditto with polyamory: if you’re more worried about protecting what you have than welcoming change, you’re not ready for a non-monogamous relationship.

Rather, when a couple contemplates a child, they tend to think less of the limits the child will place on their lives and the stresses it will place on their relationship and more about what they have to offer the child and how much joy they will take in watching the child develop and change them as partners and parents. They look forward to discovering a new dynamic with the child: will she bring the family together at her ball games? Will he need a ride to his dance recitals? How much fun will it be to chaperone her first sleepover? Who will support him when he’s down and needs a shoulder to cry on?

OK, to some extent, it’s a ridiculous analogy to compare a fully-grown adult to a child. But in another way, it’s not. A new romantic relationship can change your relationship just as much as a new child will, and making rules to limit an adult’s love and interactions can be just as cruel as making a list to limit a child’s. In fact, it can be even more so, since the adult is fully self-aware and often capable of clearly stating and negotiating needs and wants, unlike a child.

So sure, be realistic about the relationship change, and make sure you have date nights and some alone time. But it’s far more beneficial to begin opening up your relationship by anticipating the joys of the new relationship dynamic than by fearing the change it will bring. And when you approach polyamory in this manner, you’ll enjoy the added benefit of treating your new partner(s) with respect and love rather than as a disposable test case for your own foibles.

Newly non-monogamous don’ts

This list is far easier to make, since time and time again, new poly couples break hearts in their quest to keep their own relationship primary and protected. Advice from those who have fled unhealthy couples, don’t:

  • Allow veto power. Insist on communication rather than veto power. Veto power too often is a substitute for communication. It’s not wrong per se, but it’s quite often a cop-out and used to wield power instead of communication. Be mindful that you should only be expected to control your own actions, not those of your partner. Wielding veto power often shifts the balance of power in a relationship and causes far more tension and drama than those relationships that don’t offer this easy out. “Because I don’t like her” isn’t good enough; insist on thorough communication, and trust your partner to make choices that benefit everyone involved.
  • Say there’s no hierarchy if there is. One of the things I love about Tristan Taormino’s book Opening Up is this relationship structure she named, Partnered Non-Monogamy. This is the structure in which has as its base a couple, and the couple is primary with no other primaries allowed. The parties may have additional lovers, together or separately, but there is no desire or option for any relationship that would equal or rival that of the original couple. This relationship model is often desirable for the couple but can be less so for the partners entering the relationship, so it’s a good idea to be clear if this is the desired relationship structure. If this is your structure of choice, be sure not to mislead new partners by saying “we don’t believe in hierarchies” or “you’re not secondary.” Those phrases may be more politically correct, but they aren’t true in partnered non-monogamy. Respect your new partner by being honest with him/her. And for goodness’ sake, don’t make this rule for one partner but then change it for another! That doesn’t sit well with kids (ask anyone who was the oldest!), and it’s equally unkind to do to adults.
  • Ignore metamour communication. Roughly 50% of the emails I receive asking for advice are from a person in a couple asking how to deal with an issue that arose with a metamour. More often than not, what has happened is the relationship developed between partner A and the new lover, while partner B watched from afar and heard tidbits. Now, oh noes! There is an issue with the new lover and partner B, who have barely spoken before. What to do? Partner B doesn’t have to be best friends with the new lover, but it’s always a good idea to open up the lines of communication. Personally, I like to meet the new lover and then set up a coffee or lunch once a month just to chat. We rarely talk about relationship issues; the idea is to have a line of communication open so that if an issue arises, there is an already-established channel of communication and some trust in the trust bank. This makes dealing with relationship issues a breeze when they do arise. This is somewhat akin to a corporation setting up a blog and blogging on a weekly basis: communication, familiarity and credibility are established, so when a crisis arises (the CEO goes on a sexting binge with Newt Gingrich), there is a channel for communication already open to deal with the tough questions.
  • Have the point of the vee moderate. In cases in which partner B has an issue with the new lover of partner A, and metamour relations have been ignored, it often happens that partner A (the point of the vee) ends up moderating between partner B and the new lover. Anyone who has ever had someone else speak on his behalf in an emotionally charged situation will understand why this is a terrible practice. It puts the full burden of communication among all parties on one person (the point of the vee) while absolving the others of any responsibility to communicate clearly with each other. It’s a stressful situation for the point of the vee and disempowering for the other partners. In interpersonal relationships, every involved party should have a voice. Her own voice. It is simply bad communication practice to disallow a partner from participating in discussions that concern her. Even in hierarchical situations such as partnered non-monogamy, every partner deserves the respect of having a voice in the communications. No two people should ever make a decision in the absence of the third, no matter the hierarchy.

A case study

Here’s common example of this dynamic that the couple might not even realize is disrespectful: partner A is dating a new lover, and the desire has come up for an overnight. Partner A says, “I’ll check with partner B,” and partners A and B have a long, intimate conversation about the merits and drawbacks of an overnight visit. The new lover is excluded from all communication and waits patiently outside the relationship, much like a child waiting to see if he gets a raise in his allowance or not. In this case, partners A and B undoubtedly didn’t intend disrespect, but that brand of communication is setting up a power dynamic in which the new lover is essentially powerless to speak or negotiate on his own behalf. And it’s a shame, because that particular situation is an excellent opportunity to forge a new and powerful dynamic by having all three involved parties meet, express their needs, listen to concerns and create a mutually-beneficial solution. In fact, it’s difficult communications such as this that forge intimacy and trust and make for stronger relationships all around. Don’t waste this valuable opportunity!

PW 326: Negotiating poly and tantra

Buddha lolcatHow tantric practitioners negotiated non-monogamy

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Introduction

Under-18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen

1:00 News and host chat

  • Upcoming gigs at Paradise, Polycamp NW and CatalystCon
  • Wanna go to Burning Man? We are raffling off a ticket in July as a fundraiser to send Minx to CatalystCon! For every $10 donation at http://www.polyweekly.com, you’ll get one raffle entry. On July 30, we’ll draw and announce the winner of the ticket to Burning Man 2012!

3:30 Topic: Negotiating poly with tantra

South African correspondent Erich Viege recorded an interview with Shima and Andrew about teaching tantra while trying to negotiate non-monogamy.

15:00 Happy Poly Moment

Cindy shares a happy poly moment of friendships with metamours and poly going well after communication.

16:30 Thanks

Thanks to Adam for the $69 donation. Woo hoo!

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 320: I hate my metamour!

Listener M writes in with a dilemma: what do you do when you love your girlfriend but hate your metamour?

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Introduction

Under-18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen

1:00 News and host chat

  • Welcome to our cohost, LustyGuy. Can you tell which Scotch he is sipping?

1:50 Topic: I hate my metamour!

M writes in to say that he finds his girlfriend’s new partner so repulsive that he hates the guy, which is not helped by the fact that the girlfriend revealed that the partner is trapped in a sexless marriage and believes that M and girlfriend are moving too quickly.

  • A drama queen? Much of the negative information on the partner (“Scary Clown”) came to M secondhand from the girlfriend. Always question why your girlfriend chooses to reveal unflattering information about a metamour secondhand. Is there a need for drama on her part? Relationship management skills are needed here.
  • Open lines of communication there is no line of communication open between Scary Clown and M. Of course he feels uncomfortable.
  • Responsibilities of the point The person at the point of the vee (here, the girlfriend) has additional responsibilities in terms of nurturing healthy relationships and conveying only the most relevant and supportive information to partners. However, this person should NEVER agree to act as mediator between the other two parties.
  • Setting boundaries the people at the edges of the vee need to set boundaries and be careful to express what they need rather than a simple “I don’t like so-and-so.” For that matter, the person at the point of the vee also needs to set boundaries such as “No saying that M and I aren’t good as a couple. That’s not supportive, and I won’t tolerate it.”

19:45 Feedback

Wayne writes in about an NPR piece on breasts. Audio and transcripts are here.

24:00 Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 319: Marriage as a choice

Thoughts on marriage as a conscious relationship and lifestyle choice rather than the default or the result of peer pressure

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Introduction

Under-18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen

1:20 News and host chat

3:10 Topic: Marriage as a conscious choice

A recent Huffington Post personal essay questioning marriage as peer pressure in the 20-30 age range as well as:

  • The possibility that even with a lot of love and communication, it might not be enough and the marriage might need to end
  • The groupthink that marriage is hard but always worth it
  • The lack of alternative relationship choices
  • Marriage as the default rather than a custom option

20:20 Feedback on episode 316 Queer as a verb

  • Alyssa writes in to say “Sometimes the radical, panties-in-a-bunch, queers need to chill the fuck out, and what better way to chill out than to realize that something you revolve your life around isn’t a big deal to EVERYONE!”
  • Vir writes in to say that I’ve queered my relationship and my sex life (through kink/fetishes)

24:10 Thanks

Thanks to Meg for the donation this week!

Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 317: Rules redux

Franklin Veaux and Minx discuss listener feedback, advice and anecdotes around creating rules and boundaries to apply to polyamorous relatiomships

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Introduction

Under-18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen

1:00 News and host chat

CatalystCon is September 14-16 in Long Beach. Respond to the call for speakers.

2:40 Topic: Rules Redux

Franklin Veaux and Minx respond to listener feedback about the rules episode.

  • Sean wrote in with the rules his partner imposed on him after an incident
  • J wrote in to clarify the difference between rules that promote discussion versus rules that are designed to bind behavior
  • Isaac asked about D/s rules
  • Jonathan asked for rules when he began dating and got these: “We will trust you if you are trustworthy. We will believe you if you are honest. We will listen if you speak openly. We will communicate if you listen. You’ll have to write any other rules you need yourself because when all is said and done you are the only one that is going to limit your actions. Oh by the way we’ll have a surprise ready here; bring your date home if you want.”
  • Vir shared a quote on boundaries

36:00 Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 312: The power of introverts and orgasms at the gym

The power of introverts; female orgasms from exercise at the gym

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Introduction

Under-18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen.

1:00 News and host chat

  • OpenCon Catalonia will be in Spain May 25-27
  • OpenSF is June 6-8 at Holiday Inn Golden Gateway in San Francisco
  • I’ll be at Kinkfest in Portland, OR March 23-25
  • And speaking at MomentumCon in D.C. March 29-April 1

10:00 Topic: The Power of Introverts

Susan Cain’s TED talk on the power of introverts and how to maximize individual creative thinking. The loudest person isn’t always the wisest, but work environments cater to extroverts.

15:00 Topic: Orgasms at the Gym

A new study shows that women can orgasm without sexual stimulation just from certain types of exercise.

20:45 Feedback: Episode 309 on the myth of sex addiction

  • Stabbity thanks Ley for making the connection with nymphomania about pathologizing certain behavior
  • Vir comments on the pathologization of sex addiction promoting both a double standard and keeping men from taking responsibility for their sexual bad choices

24:55 Thanks

To BobBe for the kinky $69 donation. And welcome Maura to the Playmates!

25:30 Wrapup

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 311: Rules? We don’t need no stinkin’ rules!

Franklin and Minx tackle the rule dilemma: do rules work in poly relationships?

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Introduction

Under 18 warning and redirection to Scarleteen.

1:00 News and host chat

7:00 Topic: Rules? We don’t need no stinkin’ rules!

Guest cohost Franklin Veaux has written extensively on why rules don’t work in poly relationships. And I agree; rules tend to be a substitute for actual communication and a fairly powerless shield against insecurity. Why most poly rules don’t work and advice on what to do instead of creating hard and fast rules.

38:10 Thanks

To Charlie for the $69 donation. We love that amount!

Wrap up

Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

PW 310: Poly by orienation vs poly by situation

Does one have to self-identify as poly in advance of a situation in order for polyamory to work?

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Introduction

1:00 News and host chat

2:00 Topic: Poly by Orientation vs Poly by Situation

Should I be poly? This question is often asked, and a recent BlogHer essay questioning whether monogamy is the ultimate form of love or a restraint on one’s sexual freedom is better brought up the question: is polyamory a solution to a relationship with no intimacy?

  • Is poly of zero benefit to a monogamous-identified partner of someone who would like to be poly?
  • Does “Poly by Situation” ever work?
  • 11:20 What is required for a Poly by Situation effort to work out: every partner is fully committed, everyone voices their fears and doubts at every turn, no veto power

13:15 Feedback

26:30 Wrap up
Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email polyweekly@gmail.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? :-) Check out PolyWeekly at Blubrry.com. Share this with a friend or write an iTunes review!

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